Hey, thanks everyone again. I am reading everything but don’t have time to reply to every post. I think we’re still not quite answering my question 🙂 I don’t mean what do fans want from *me.* I mean, what do fans want in a general sense. What do fans want that the major publishers are not providing or not providing well? I’m sure Marvel and DC spend a lot of time, money and effort trying to figure that out. What kinds of stories? What do Wally fans want to see and what’s a good direction to take that character? For Damian?
Forget the crossover. Complaining is easy. Point us where you think we should go. If Nightwing isn’t Wonder Bread, what kinds of stories (generally speaking) would you want to see? I can walk into Dan DiDio’s office and say, “This guy said he’d like to see this, this gal said she’d like to see that.”
Or, we can continue having fun kicking me in the shins 🙂 Up to you!
I want characters who are allowed to grow and change. I want companies to be willing to pass the baton permanently, not dip their toes into the idea of successors only to bring back the original in a few years (i.e. as interesting as the premises of Riri and Vic Von Doom as Iron Man may be, I know Tony’s going to be back eventually and things will reset).
Sometimes growing out of one’s problems results in a boring character. Fine, don’t be afraid to have that happen, just make the boring people into supporting cast and focus on the newbies with problems. Think Dick Grayson is a boring nonentity but need to keep him in the trademark rotation? Give him a sidekick who’s the real star of the book. Maybe this will give Dick a new hook (they’ve tried this, it hasn’t really stuck, but hey), but at least he won’t be carrying the drama, the new kid will.
Sometimes growing out of one’s problems just reveals new ones that can be just as interesting. I almost gave up on a character I was writing online after “fixing” all his problems…then I realized there were so many more issues opened up, and got another bunch of stories out of him. Eventually he did become boring, so I wrote him out and shifted the focus to other characters (including a mashup of Wally West and Triumph, amusingly).
That said, “Deathstroke tries to give up on his cynical worldview and become a hero” is definitely trading one set of problems for an entirely different set. In many ways, he’s following in Damian’s footsteps there. (Holy crap, I so want to see him asking Damian for advice on being a hero when your every instinct says to just kill everyone and let the M.E. sort it out.)
And you’re falling into my trap 🙂 This is the frustrating part about trying something new: readers assuming they know what to expect. Oh, yawn, Deathstroke becomes a hero. And I can’t defend the idea without spoiling it, so some fans may sit the arc out on a presumption. *bangs head into monitor* We can do the same over and over or we can innovate and lose people who will assume, based perhaps on past experience, that they know what we’re up to. Not saying that’s what you specifically are doing, Dave, just whining in general.
Well, my point was that it doesn’t have to be “yawn”. Triumph was all about a guy trying to be a hero for the wrong reasons. Slade trying to be a hero might have the right reasons, but totally the wrong TOOLS. Flaws are a hook, and you can grow out of one set of flaws only to run smack into another.
I’m curious – do you think that a replacement character will ever sell enough to justify not bringing back the original version? Because that’s really the issue – and even the best replacements, like Dick as Batman, didn’t sell enough to justify keeping them.
Priest asked what I (the reader) wanted to see, not what Corporate wants. He already has plenty of experience with what Corporate wants.
It’s not just corporate. It’s who pays the writers and artists who write these stories. Corporate does not go out and make people stop buying a title when a replacement character shows up.
But they will fail to support the change, insist on reversion when sales dip rather than letting a book find its audience, etc. Again, you’re missing the point of the thread: do readers want something other than the same old formula that Corporate is willing to back? Is there something readers want that a writer could push and try to convince Corporate to give a shot? You’re just naysaying, which means what you want is “more of the same so I can complain about getting more of the same.”
Since my favorite character is Stephanie Brown, and what I want more than anything else is a solo Stephanie Brown title (preferably as Batgirl or Robin), it’s not at all my intent to naysay. I just think that blaming “corporate” instead of the problems inherent in any replacement isn’t very helpful – instead, trying to think of things that will build a character to the point of having their own solo in a status quo you would enjoy is more useful than Corporate blaming.
And this is from someone who will readily blame Corporate, and specific people in corporate, for a lot of things related to my favorite character.
Well, I generally really like Dan Didio’s ideas, he likes evolving characters instead of holding them in place. Right now I feel like most of their line is too “safe” with a lot of hype and no substance and hype is only a temporary sales boost. Tell him that JLD will never work, it’s all hype and completely misses the point of the characters. Us, the fans of the mystic characters like those characters because they weren’t regular superheroes and making them regular superheroes(except that instead of super strength they shoot magic rays) is dumb, John Constantine’s fans liked him because he was a conman not a super wizard that had magical shield and magical bolts. Marvel for example has been actively trying to destroy the Inhumans franchise by making them discount x-men(due to the fact that their movie studio doesn’t have the rights to the x-men) and what they achieved by that is 1) they antagonized the x-men fanbase and in turn the x-fans have been very aggressive towards the inhumans franchise and 2) they completely miss the point of the inhumans and have stripped them of what made them interesting in the first place. I really really liked the Paul Jenkins/Jae Lee Inhumans maxi series but I hate everything they’ve done with the Inhumans in the past few years. Take Black Bolt, a unique character in that he’s basically a mute and Marvel has found really uncreative and lame ways to make him speak or monologue which I find boring, the maxi series i mentioned previously managed to create a great story without having to resort to cheap tricks like that. I really hope you do a good job on your Inhumans mini but I won’t hate you if you won’t, Marvel has made me pretty apathetic towards the franchise despite my previous love for them(it’s a similar situation to Slade over at DC, I was pretty apathetic towards him until you came on despite the fact that I liked Marv Wolfman’s original work on the character.
Tell them that people that buy trades are either collectors or are trying to read the series for the first time ever so canceling what was supposed to be a 7 volume series after 3 is a bad idea because a lot of fans wait until the whole run is collected until they start buying any. Tell them that the trade department is quite disrespectful towards some fans, I can understand the fact that a series simply isn’t that popular and wouldn’t sell very well so it’s hard to justify collecting the entire 100 issue run but canceling a 1 volume collection because preorders are small is disrespectful towards certain fans and come on… it’s just one tpb, how much money can you lose? Years back, there was a series called REBELS that ran for 28 comics but only the first 20 issues are collected in trade and the last volume was canceled before it even came out. That’s a slap in the face towards the fans of that comic and I understand that they aren’t a large number but why disrespect them like that?
Tell, mr. Didio that I’d love to see a Hong Kong Phooey series in the Hanna Barbera line that would be kind of like a fusion of Denny O’Neil and Dennys Cowan’s The Question and Blacksad, a detective/noir style comic with kung fu being played fairly straight but end up as pretty funny due to the absurdity of the setting as well as Spot doing various problem solving in the background.
Tell mr. Didio that we’re itching for some mystical comic(hellblazer is the only one right now and it’s pretty disappointing) but he needs to understand that we like the more subtle displays of magic instead of pew pew lasers.
You can’t satisfy everyone with one product, but you can publish a an entire line of 50 comics and produce something for everyone(and I don’t think the Rebirth line up right now is very diverse, they’re mostly cookie cutter superhero comics). Dial H for example was not a big seller but DC ended up giving it a Deluxe edition collection so obviously it did find an audience somewhere. Fringe titles are good and if your big name comics starring your most popular characters are selling well then you should be able to take a risk or two.
As for Nightwing, you can tell Tim Seeley himself that I want more Grayson style stories instead of going back to Bludhaven again and dealing with one of the lamest DC villains in Blockbuster…again. Right now the character feels like it has regressed and that’s bad… for me of course, there are plenty of people that love the status quo and love recycled plots.
Well, good news for you, for me and for all the people who aren’t liking current Hellblazer, Tim Seeley will be taking Hellblazer in August from issue 13, I have my trust in him.
Me too. Tim’s a great guy (and I don;t mean to bash him with my Nightwing rants; its not directed specifically at any specific writer).
I like Tim, but I don’t think he’s doing a great job on Nightwing(I’ve dropped it but what I’ve read of it was not terrible just incredibly meh and boring and I’ve been paying attention to future solicits and it does not sound good), I found his work on Grayson to be much better. Part of it is the 1PN which I don’t think he does well. We’ll see with Hellblazer, his style of writing doesn’t seem like a good fit for Constantine and I really don’t like the artist on it(the main one from Nightwing, Javi Fernandez, I like a lot and would’ve fit better) but I am going to hope for the best.
“As for Nightwing, you can tell Tim Seeley himself that I want more Grayson style stories instead of going back to Bludhaven again and dealing with one of the lamest DC villains in Blockbuster…again. Right now the character feels like it has regressed and that’s bad… for me of course, there are plenty of people that love the status quo and love recycled plots.”
Have you actually read Nightwing, or are you just looking at covers? Raptor, Deathwing, Hurt, etc these are all Grayson-style villains. And coming up next there’s more Spyral, Tiger Shark, and others. The Blockbuster arc hasn’t even started yet, so you can’t exactly judge that.
Yes, I did read it but I stopped after #8. I’m not sure what you mean by “Grayson-style villains” because what Deathwing(and Blockbuster) are is Nigthwing villains, really bad Nightwing villains. And I thought that he made the Court of Owls seem too incompetent for me to take serious. I remember when it was announced that he’s going to Bludhaven and a lot of people were talking about how “NotGotham” is a lame city and he was agreeing. Basically, he’s trying hard to be Grant Morrison in his run and incorporate the “everything is canon” concept but he doesn’t understand that Morrison didn’t reference old storylines in his Batman run unless he used concepts from them. Seeley is just referencing everything for the sake of it and it just comes off as insincere. I didn’t like the issue guest staring Babs, I hate shipping and I found them to be very obnoxious together and I found the ending of the issue with the fakeout twist of raptor and if he’s trusthworthy or not to be cheap and predictable. I also dislike the 1st person narration A LOT. You know the first Grayson Annual? God, I love that issue, and the part where they’re checking with Matches Malone to verify if Dick’s undercover persona was legit and his response was just… it was hilarious but it didn’t have me laughing out loud, I just smiled and fondly remembered that scene for weeks, I was impressed by the joyness and love for comics that such a scene oozed out. I though that issue was so clever and I want more clever stuff from Seeley because I know he’s capable of it. Nightwing #2 opens up with a recap page… I found that so disrespectful, what, does he think the readers would be so confused by the events that transpired so far and couldn’t keep up? The Rebirth special was a recap issue in it’s entirety…
You’re basically forming your own conclusions based solely on names. Bludhaven is very different from previous iterations. If anything, it’s a metacommentary on what didn’t work about it before, and rebranding. Some of the old throwaway villains have been revamped and made better than before. Deathwing is a completely new character concept. The arc after Blockbuster was a logical continuation of Morrison’s Batman and Robin. And the most recent preview is already giving Blockbuster a new backstory.
I am not doing that, as I’ve said I’ve read 8 issues(9 actually if you count the Rebirth special) and laid out some of my problems with the run. I don’t need a metacommentary on why Bludhaven didn’t work before because it’s painfully obvious why. As for Deathwing, it’s an old crappy idea that should’ve just been left to be forgotten. I get the idea of revamping something that doesn’t work but he’s being too self aware with it, too ironic in a way. Blockbuster too is just crap, giving him a new backstory won’t change that and revamping him to be Nightwing’s Bane is a bad idea because Nightwing shouldn’t be Batman-lite, he can be his own character. That’s why issues like the first Grayson Annual or the desert issue are so good, they do their own thing and use continuity in a clever way while also highlighting Dick’s best attributes. I like that he used Pyg and Hurt and I liked that he created Raptor but the actual run itself is just mediocre and Tim Seeley is capable of some really strong stuff.
Well, hello there, sir. I am terribly glad you opened up this thread and that you are willing to listen to readers.
What I feel it’s been missing is variety in storyline structure according to each character. What I mean to say by that is that not every character should have “6 issues and done” story arcs. I’ll use as example the current Detective Comics, Nightwing and The Flash.
Detective is a team book and what Tynion has been doing is to always leave some plot points open for him to return in the following arcs, allowing him to develop every character bit by bit while also giving focus to one specific character at each arc. We have various overarching storylines that blend with each other and spawn shorter storylines, which has been working wonderfully for a team book. It is very hard to have a revolving door of villains and plots with team books because you often struggle with the fact that you have to give “screen time” to each and every one of them in just 6 issues.
The Flash is a majorly solo title and its stories have been very much contained in themselves. It is a character that has a well established and great rogues gallery, a very traditional superhero character, and this structure works really well for him. I would say that the same happens with Batman and Superman.
But then there are the younger heroes, both in fictional age and in real time. Nightwing is not exactly young, since Dick Grayson has been around since 1940, but he is a 20-something character. He is traditionally a goody-two-shoes, being the first Robin and all. What makes his character interesting is exactly that, he has lived his life trying to meet Batman’s expectations, leading people and being their anchor. No person is that good. He is conflicted, he is impulsive, he will push himself way too hard, he will pretend to be okay when he is actually crumbling. In order to explore that duality of his character there should be a over-arching storyline that will be continuously pushing him to the edge, as what Dixon had in his run and King and Seeley had in Grayson. Besides, for being overly shiny, Grayson’s character works better when in contrast with a dark character: Bruce Wayne, Slade Wilson, Damian Wayne, you name it. And besides, why not take those young heroes and make them have to face young people’s problems such as, you know, unemployment or having to work double time or not knowing what they will do with their lives in the future.
So, what I want is for each title to have a format that better fits the creative team and the character. The 6-issue structure has been taking over all of the titles and I don’t think that is the answer. And if what is holding that structure in place is a worry that other structures might not go well with Trade Paperbacks, just look at Saga and you’ll have your answer.
“What I feel it’s been missing is variety in storyline structure according to each character. What I mean to say by that is that not every character should have “6 issues and done” story arcs…”
You’re right. But we’re also selling to the bookstore market now, which responds well to collections at 5-6 issues. I’m more concerned about the DC house style of first person narrative, which is why I don’t do it. I’d like to think I can do 1PN as well as anybody else, but I refuse to do it because that’s virtually all you can read at DC. I’d like to see DC mix it up a little so the storytelling approach is not so rigid. Writing comics with no captions and no 1PN to assist the reader is harder to do, and I often fail at it, confusing readers. But I want to be different because, as a comics fan myself, I want to see variety. Full disclosure: next issue, Deathstroke #20, is written in 1PN, the first I’ve done since thawing from my suspended animation. There’s a reason for it, as you (or at least people who read Deathstroke) will see.
Grayson sus without the internal monologue and it was great but there were many fans used to having their hand held. :/
I find Slade very complex so getting inside his head doesn’t sound as interesting to me. I don’t think 1PN is a problem just at DC and I am sick of it… I don’t mind a change in style for one issue and I hope you’ll do good, I trust you with this but… I just don’t like 1PN for Slade… and to top it all off there are so many comics doing it right now and most writers just don’t do 1PN very well…
And I also want to echo what another person said, DC needs to stop worrying about telling stories about what’s canon, it’s stupid and it’s boring. Continuity shouldn’t hinder the writer and it really isn’t important what’s in canon and what isn’t, these things should be referenced by the writer if it’s necessary to the story. Trying to please casual fans that just want the status quo intact and that go crazy over Nazi Captain America or your upcoming “Defiance” storyline despite the fact that it’s painfully obvious they’re just temporary shake ups is pointless. To make a reference to Lazarus Contract, these people have Kid Flash’s hidden super power.
Oh and one other thing(Man, I sound so needy right now…) but I saw the upcoming Mr. Miracle will have a mature rating, how about getting one for Deathstroke? I realize it might be late for such a change, especially since the first tpb is out but… maybe it can get such a rating going forward and down the line it can be collected in a Deluxe edition that will have the first 20 issues’ dialogue slightly touched up to contain profanity. Just an idea. Oh and if you could tell Dan Didio, Jamie S. Rich, Tom King, Mitch Gerards or whoever else is listening that it’s “Darkseid Is” not “Darkseid is” and that, yes, it’s important.
I’d like to see Damian back in some kind of mentorship relationship – I get why he’s not currently Batman’s partner, but I think he works best when paired with Dick or Steph or someone who contrasts with him. Tomasi’s Batman and Robin, for all its skill and effectiveness, highlighted for me why Bruce is not a great choice for Damian’s mentor, because they’re too similar.
“I’d like to see Damian back in some kind of mentorship relationship…”
Well, we would have put him on Defiance (Deathstroke’s Teen Titans) but I was told Damian is currently “overexposed.” It would have been a hoot, though, and just think of the fun everyone could have bashing me!
I would have read the heck out of that. I mean, if I weren’t already reading the heck out of Deathstroke. 🙂 Seeing him be the one who has to be the conscience, though – that would have been incredibly interesting!
Shame that would have been hella fun Damian and Deathstroke have such banter and bounce off each other well.
Also really pleased you’re using Tanya in this title it was such a pleasant surprise when she popped up.
As a Damian fan I would have been absolutely on board with this. Interacting with Slade would have brought out the good and funny in him like it does with many other characters in your run and that is what I think many fans want.
I would just like to thank you for giving us such a great Deathstroke series.
I am a Dick Grayson Fan and I agree that he is boring when he is stuck in Batman-Lite mode where he just gleefully goes with everything and acts as everyone’s best friend and this is why Nightwing has few stories that are mentioned beyond the Chuck Dixon run overall as being memorable from his fans but never on any list for great stories. He is best when he is either a Leader trying to handle challenging personalities like New Teen Titans, Batman & Robin, and the very few occasions he led the Justice League. As a solo hero he is most intriguing as the composite superhero who seen ALOT but continues to push through like Black Mirror which I believe is his greatest solo story where conducts himself as a righteous person but is not so “green” that he acknowledges there are some truly screwed up people in this world fighting The Dealer & Mirror House, The Daughter of the man who killed his parents, Tiger Shark and a sociopath in the son of James Gordon. Grayson was another interesting take on the character that gave him an entire genre to explore in the superhero spy world and forced him to take tough decisions and deal with less then ideal people daily. Sadly both those stories where cut short by reboot/rebirth and a push to return him back to Nightwing which has yet to deliver a story as good but generated the DickxBabs & Happy Hugs Tumblr nonsense. Seeley is doing a solid job but has yet to hit a stride that delivered on the scale of the stories mentioned earlier.
“a push to return him back to Nightwing which has yet to deliver a story as good but generated the DickxBabs & Happy Hugs Tumblr nonsense.”
That really hasn’t happened. Babs has barely been in the series. And Tumblr hates the current Nightwing run strictly because Seeley has brought out his flaws.
I personally love when writers touch the Multiverse and bring alternate versions of characters. It’s often fun to see what would happened to a character if something in their past changed, went different. Lot of stories like that are unfortunately very short or forgotten.
But what I want to see from DC and writers, is the stories like Superman “Multiplicity” or Grant Morrison’s “Multiversity”. Stories where the different versions of the same characters appear and have conversation with each other, while solving some mystery or fighting one of their villains who has united with their alternate version. Comics that I have just mentioned are amazing but also have a flaw that you have already mentioned in past thread. Just like in your crossover arc, these stories feature a bunch of characters, like in a teambook, and almost all of them unfortunately become a wallpaper, because there is no space to give them a spot to talk, to shine. So why not just pick two, three, max five different versions of the character for an arc and balance epic story with a dialogues between the alternate characters? I think that it would also be a good plot device to implement reflections upon the main character. Maybe give a reason for the character to change something in it’s life?
Also I love seeing alternate versions of heroes and villains because of the art. DC has many great artists, they have a lot of talent and can definitely create awesome looking characters. Sometimes I catch myself staring at a character, admiring the design. With alternate characters I do that all the time because they often have a suit that is different yet it still resembles the original, artists tend to create the look of a character that would reflect their origin, their story and the element in which they differ from the main character, and I love that.
As for Slade, first thing that comes in mind, regarding the alternate version of him, is a universe where he was a good guy, or where Grant didn’t die. And of course, ideas like that aren’t bad, they are quite nice but that’s not what people will want to see after current crossover and upcoming Defiance chapter. Deathstroke is a mercenary, killer for hire, so maybe a story that would feature some multiversal contract? It kinda feels like it’s Lobo territory but I think that he wouldn’t really mind, he is currently in a team book doing good stuff, right?
That’s what I want. I don’t know how many people also want to see stories featuring alternate versions of the same character, multiverse stories, but from what I know, lot of readers enjoyed comics like that(Superman: Red Son, Superman “Multiplicity”, The Multiversity). And of course it wouldn’t need to be stories with two alternate Supermans, it could be something like – “communist Superman and nazi Batman found themselves in a strange place, together they must overcome their differences and figure out who kidnapped them”. Maybe even they would fail and jump into each other throats at the end? That’s up to you guys.
I have my trust in you with Slade, you are an amazing writer with a unique way of writing and Deathstroke has been nothing but amazing for the past 19 issues. Keep up the good work Mr. Priest.
Aren’t you afraid of such alternates becoming trivialized? Or eroding the popularity of the original? Too much “Elseworlds” ?
The second question will be easier to answer first. No, alternate characters won’t erode the popularity of the original. Unless the original is a fairly new character and didn’t have much stories that fall in memory, then the original character may be overshadowed by it’s alternate version. Otherwise not really, Superman from Red Son was a huge success and a memorable character, yet he didn’t undermined the Superman we all know. Also I don’t want another “Elseworlds”, I would be more satisfied if there would be one 3-6 issue arc featuring alternate character along the original, in a long run of one title. Like I mentioned, Superman recently had a story like that, “Multiplicity”, it was 3 issues arc IIRC and I think that a story like that will be available to tell only after next 40 issues of Superman. That way alternate character won’t become more popular than the original, also it will feel more special.
Now going back to the first question. Hard to say. I mean, alternate stories are mostly one time only. Some of them have a great story that couldn’t be told through the original character so if a writer would brought the character back in order to tell a story about the main one, the alternate character would be trivialized to a simple plot device. It may kinda look like that at first but I think that if a reader sees a black, president Superman in a story of original character first, he will be curious about him and will want to search for other stories with that character. As for readers who already knew the alternate one, they will probably enjoy seeing him in the companion of the original, even expect too see them exchanging dialogues. And unfortunately be dissapointed in that because these characters are brought mostly in times of crisis, were there are too many people and the focus is on action so there is no time to talk. That saying, I should still answer that question. I am afraid that the characters may become trivialized but I also have hopes and trust in the writers to handle it well.
If I may intrude, I believe this to be a cyclical thing.
Lots of alternates and legacy versions tire the reader, are swept under the rug, then the originals ends up falling in their own trappings and we have alternates again, which sort of throw light on why the original works by looking at them trough slight different lenses.
Usually, when a character goes trough a “back to basics” approach, people ache for it. Like when Morrison did t-shirt, golden-agey Superman to show who he was at that point, and then brought Super-President from Earth 23 to show what he could be.
I wouldn’t neccessary say that they tire the readers but yes, they are almost always swept under the rug. That’s why Priest’s question was hard to answer for me, alternates and legacy characters are kinda destined to be trivialized, but I personally don’t think that is always a bad thing.
Regarding the ‘need’ for alternate paths, yes, people tend to ache for it. I ache for it. That’s why I want to see stories like I have mentioned before. I mean, DC, you have a whole Multiverse of alternate realities(Maybe even Omniverse after the Dark Matter thingy), so please, USE that Multiverse to tell stories. Don’t let the heroes and will-hane’s of different Earths go to complete waste. Just because they had they stories that doesn’t mean they should be put in the closet and brought back only in times of crisises. They can also be used in simple stories, but giving them solo titles can be too extreme. So why not some simple arcs from time to time, yes they still would be swept under the rug but at least some fans would be satisfied.
I get it. When I read Multiversity #1, ten pages in I had completely forgotten that was Calvin Ellis, and not “Superman”, because it felt SO Superman, like I didn’t realize I missed that take.
The problem with Elseworlds I found is that most writers don’t really understand how to make an alternate universe story interesting. Most of the time, they read like fanfiction.net stories with licensed characters in them. The few good Elseworld stories (Dark Knight Returns, Kingdom Come) work because they have something meaningful to say about the DC universe they’re playing with.
What I want as a Wally fan since day 1 was for him to get his own book back and more quickly re-establish his life. I felt like DCU Rebirth was a great step in consolidating with the fans on the screw up they did with Wally, but then we just went right back to where he was just before the New 52 — wallowing around doing nothing. Titans is a competent book but it’s not the place for Wally to re-establish his life. Wally dealing with the Fearsome Five isn’t why people like Wally. Peoples’ best views of Wally was after he left the Titans, after all.
There’s two main things Wally should be doing: trying to unravel the big Rebirth mystery (of which the Titans have done less of than Batman, Barry Allen, Superman, and basically everyone major even though they’re closest to it) and setting back up in Keystone. Reminding us half a dozen times that he has no life is just circling a depressing drain instead of doing something about it — and no, crippling him isn’t the sudden initiative he needs to work on his life. Wally created his life out of being The Flash, that’s the life he needs to rekindle. Going the route of him fake retiring and reconnecting with Linda makes him dishonest like Barry before him (there’s nothing I hate more than superheroes keeping those they’re closest to in increased danger because of their need for secret identities and Wally’s eschewing of this nonsense was part of what made him great).
If you want more specifics about what I’d do with Wally, I’d probably just pull a Superman Reborn with him. Through some universe altering nonsense we’d bring back his and Linda’s life together — if there’s any plot device that can accomplish this, it’s the Speed Force, as you so greatly know from this last crossover. I don’t want to get a halfassed retry at him and Linda getting together. That story’s been told and told exceedingly well, just like how we didn’t need to see Superman and Lois get back together and the best solution was just establishing that their already perfect growth together was now the status quo.
You can easily ring an arc’s worth of story out of this. Aside from that, you can also do the rather amusing man out of time story because we still have all this fallout where Wally’s entire history HAS been erased. His life with Linda might be rekindled but, to the world at large, Wally doesn’t exist. He’s a man in America with no social security card, no record of his existence, trying to wiggle his way back into a place he’s familiar. The mayor of Keystone, the cops he was friends with (I’d love to see Morillo and Chyre) and please, dear god, rescue Pied Piper from being the token gay character in Barry’s book and reunite him with Wally. Trying to staple Wally’s relationship with Hartley onto Barry was one of the most awful and annoying parts of the New 52. It’d be like trying to hook up Kyle Rayner and Carol Ferris (…wait a second). No to mention The Flash family, who are his supporting cast and not Barry’s, would obviously fit in nicely coming back into Wally’s world. And finally, please, ending this nonsense where Wally for no good reason doesn’t talk to his DAMN MOM in Iris. The first thing he would’ve done is go hug Iris after the scene with Barry, not beg Barry to not tell her he’s back.
The only real fiddly point here is his kids. I’m one of the few fans who would like to have his kids back, if only because I think that they were an important next step in his life that was executed poorly (by Waid’s own admission). Part of the reason I think they were so ill-received is Waid tried to force this Incredibles light situation on them when, instead of isolating the West family in their own corner of the universe, the best thing would’ve been to introduce that kids to the wider world of superpowered weirdos. I mean, people freaking LOVE Jon and Damian, why can’t the West kids fit in that niche? We almost freaking had it, even — Spencer’s pitch for a Young Justice Part II team with Iris West II (who’d probably get named Iris Park temporarily, due to Wally West not being legally alive if she were to come back), Damian, Blue Beetle, Supergirl, Steph, Miss Martian, Static etc was one of the coolest, best pitches for a young team I’ve seen since Runaways and it never got legs and I’ll never understand why.
As a kicker, you could even have a not-yet-zoom Hunter Zolomon appear at the police station which could cause some interesting drama for Wally, who knows what’s happened before with Hunter. I and my friend have a little story banging around in our heads about this but it’s a bit complicated/long to bring in here. It’d at least be a completely different story with Zoom than what’s been told before.
Wally has one of the best and most interesting supporting casts of any cape hero (built from the ground up by legends Waid and Johns) and while he wallows in Titans, they wallow in limbo. A lot of what’s great about Wally is lost on him only existing in the Titans. I know every fan of every character wants their character to have a solo book, but is a Wally West solo so preposterous? Less successful characters have been given shots these last 5 years, surely it’s not a matter of it being too risky, right? Maybe DC’s already planning on it AFTER Rebirth, but I feel like Wally dealing with the results of Rebirth would’ve been a great way to carry his momentum from DCU Rebirth — which has been notably squandered in Titans, itself just a book obsessed with rehashing old stories instead of moving forward or trying anything new.
I don’t know. That’s my shotgun attempt at what I want with Wally. I want him to quickly re-establish what he had before Barry came in and snatched it all away. Quickly is the key word here, because repeating already told stories is anathema to me. Then we can start telling some new stories about Wally in this new situation in a new world.
I don’t agree that Nightwing is without flaws or edges, I think it’s just that his aren’t as glaring as some others. I don’t think you have to be deeply flawed to be interesting though. A character looking at their trauma and tragedy and saying ‘you don’t own me’ is inspiring to me. He’s not trapped in the past like Bruce is but he’s still every bit the hero. The thing is ‘Nightwing’ isn’t as important to me as Dick Grayson is I guess.
I don’t find him to be wonder bread but that may be just because we look for different things in a character. If he doesn’t click for you then there’s nothing I or anyone else can really do for that. I’ve tried to like Batman enough times to know he isn’t for me so I get it.
As for stories, I’d like to see him explore new ground or if not new then at least not back doing exactly what he was in the 90s and 2000s. I want more spy and detective stories that respect and explore his intelligence and skills without turning him into Batman lite.
Something that explores his Romani heritage and how connected he is or isn’t to it that doesn’t rely on stereotypes.
One thing I always wanted even though it means going back to the past is a modern retelling of him becoming or creating Robin. Something that explores the culture shock of him having been a circus kid without much money or a stable residence or schooling but with loving parents who suddenly finds himself orphaned and living with a rich emotionally distant stranger and having to go to some rich kid school where he doesn’t fit in or want to be.
Him sneaking out on his own to hunt down Tony Zucco was something I always liked. He chose to be Robin even after he got some form of closure for his parents. Because he wanted to help and he could help so he did.
Dick was an angry and traumatized child that became a mostly functional and well adjusted adult that’s true but he never would have become that on his own. He’s not actually the happy shiny flower child some fans want him to be and he’s not the hyper masculine power fantasy some other fans want him to be. He’s a character with 77 years of history full of triumphs and failures. He’s had his asshole moments and total breakdowns. He’s broken Bruce’s no killing rule before when he thought the Joker had killed Tim and when he let Blockbuster die. He gets angrier than most and fears failure more than anything. He’s nice and trusting but he can also be calculating and manipulative.
The trick with him is to find the balance. Because of his history and because he’s the og Robin so many fans feel ownership of him which can lead to flat characterization because the writer doesn’t want to screw up. Or they just think everybody already knows him so they don’t have to put in work to make anyone care. It also at times leads to the idea he’s a huge ladies man and must always have a love interest which is one of the worst characterizations of him. Along with him being written as incompetent or airheaded or just a plain jerk.
It’s hard to do new things with Dick because so many people want him stuck as Nightwing and working alongside Batman. Which is a shame because he has so much history and so many connections and the ability to fit into so many corners of the universe he ultimately feels stifled when he’s confined to Gotham or Bludhaven.
And this is rambling so I’ll just say what I want most are stories that explore him as a character whether that means dipping into the past or an alternate universe. My favorite stories are character studies which sadly don’t always make for great or profitable superhero comics.
I didn’t mean to suggest NW has no flaws. I meant to to suggest I, personally, find him boring, when he shouldn’t be. There’s more untapped potential in Grayson than there is oil in Russia. NW should be one of DC’s top-selling books. Take Batman and turn him inside out.
“A character looking at their trauma and tragedy and saying ‘you don’t own me’ is inspiring to me. ”
Yeah. That”s what I’m sayin’. Let’s bring that into sharper focus.
I’d be interested to see what you’d do with Nightwing and how you’d bring out his potential. Because you’re right in that he shouldn’t be boring. And there are so many stories you can tell and places you can take him. People are so much more resistant to change or character exploration with him than they are with anyone else and it’s kind of baffling because Nightwing is supposed to be about change and evolution and hope. It gets frustrating even as a fan because it feels like the character regresses everytime they want to hit up the nostalgia market.
No, no, hands full at the moment between Atillan, Catalyst Prime and Burbank!
“NW should be one of DC’s top-selling books. Take Batman and turn him inside out.”
I think the problem is that sales never really correlate with quality, or boldness. Characters with their movies and TV shows will sell, but B-listers will always be in the middle or lower end of the pack. We saw this happen a couple of years ago with Omega Men almost getting cancelled, and we’re seeing it now with Deathstroke, a book that got nominated for an Eisner.
I’d like DC to stop wasting another year to sort out its continuity. Just establish whatever “Greatest Hits” history they’ve clearly got planned, free creators up to tell great stories without having to jump through hoops to avoid the relationships and backstories that have worked best for decades, and completely ignore the $#!* that didn’t work work.
If you think Dick Grayson is boring, don’t write him. There’s plenty of other characters out there to play with.
“I’d like DC to stop wasting another year to sort out its continuity.”
Me too. And have said so, loudly. In a room full of their top writers, Dan DiDio, Geoff Johns, Bob Harras and others. The room was *sick* with bosses and I, dealing with walking pneumonia, just cavalierly whacked them over this seemingly unending trend of process stories: a six-part story arc to explain why this character is now wearing a red hat instead of a blue one. Enough already. I am *amazed* I still have a job.
I’d love to get my hands on Grayson. I really have a strong idea of where to go with him that is both consistent with his fans’ core values about the character and is also progressive. At the very least, I’d redesign his mask so we could see his eyes. To me, the key to Grayson is his compassion for people. The cold white-eye look is Batman. Nightwing needs to be Batman 2.0, all the skills with much less of the theatrics and neurosis.
Actually? Nightwing should be just Nightwing. I’m tired of the appeal of being Batman 2.0. Having overlapping skills is fine! But where is his other individual traits beyond just compassion? He has a blood father and mother and a circus life. There should be just as much difference as there is similarities.
Good to hear. I actually don’t mind stories that rectify or reconcile previous continuity shenanigans–if it makes for a great story. Johns’s original GL: Rebirth did a pretty damn good job explaining away a decade of creative missteps while also being a pretty fun story that laid the groundwork for an astonishing run of new ideas and characters in the GL world…while simultaneously managing to do absolutely nothing with John Stewart 😉
Without spoiling anything, can you at least assure us all that all this particular round of continuity musical chairs is ending in the next year?
Jay: they never tell me anything. And, if they did, I don’t pay much attention. I’m easily distracted…
This discussion seems to be wrapping up, so though I haven’t had a chance to complete the crossover, I feel as though I’d like to weigh in now.
You seem not to want to read more about the crossover, so I’ll keep that talk short. From the three parts that I have read, I believe that the crossover suffered from what I view to be the problem of most crossovers: too many artists and writers with different and conflicting styles and tones. While you, Abnett, and Percy evidently worked closely together to plot the crossover, your unique, individual writings styles made for a slightly inconsistent tone and pace. This of course must be difficult because Deathstroke is a much different book tonally from Titans and Teen Titans, but flow of the story seemed to change with each issue.
Another issue with the story that you seem to have alluded to is the limited amount of pages that you were given to tell this crossover. It seems as though DC is keen on keeping each Rebirth crossover (Superman Reborn, The Button) at four issues long. As you have stated, with how few pages you were given, it was difficult to provide nuance. I believe that the pacing of the crossover also was detrimental to the story. In retrospect, very little happens in the openning issue of Titans and the story beats that do happen are essentially repeated with the second Wally West in Teen Titans. Because of how little happened in the Titans issue, it took an additional issue of Teen Titans (a full half of the crossover) to establish the story and conflict, leaving you with very little room to tell the rest of the story.
Unfortunately, there is little that can be done about these gripes that I have about the crossover. Crossovers sell well and are an inevitable part of the conics industry, even if it bothers me that such stories sacrifice artistic consistency. Similarly, little can be done about the amount of issues that you are given to write your crossover.
Looking forward, which is the point of this post, I have greatly enjoyed your run on Deathstroke and hope that you keep up the good work. Before this series, my only experience wirh the character was the classic Judas Contract storyline, and though I appreciated his role in that, it did little to invest me in his character. What convinced me to begin your Deathstroke series was a link that someone provided to your website about your upcoming Deathstroke series. Liking what I read, I decided to give it a try. Needless to say, this series has blown me away and is by far the title that I enjoy the most out of DC’s current line. I trust you to continue with the good work.
I’m not quite sure that I know what sort of opinions that you would like submitted about how to approach future story arcs. I am a fan of Dick Grayson, and because you specifically talk about him and your view that you find him uninteresting. I believe that your previous comments about the character that you have made in previous posts show that you have a decent grasp of the character; he has overcome a dark background to become a rather well-adjusted, sociable person. I view Dick Grayson as a symbol of change and growth in the comics. He is the first (to my knowlege) sidekick to graduate into his own hero. Ironically, this graduation also removed many of his hangups, leaving few stories to tell with the character. As a fan of Dick Grayson’s character, I find it rather funny that I can’t name a single memorable Nightwing story outside of his debut in The Judas Contract. When recommending stories of the character to others, I often turn to stories in which he occupies other mantles, such as his times as Robin, Batman, or as a secret agent, each with their own unique conflict. These different personas represent the changes that Dick has undergone throughout his history, so while Nightwing may be stale or static, Dick Grayson is a dynamic character.
Earlier this year, I undertook the effort of reading all of Dick Grayson’s appearances between 1966 and 1980, early Robin stories, his run during the New Teen Titans, his time in Blüdhaven, his time filling in as Batman after RIP, his time as a spy in Grayson, and his Rebirth series. If I were to have to pin down a single defining conflict for the character, I would say that it would be his struggle to find normality.
Dick was raised in the circus; he didn’t have an ordinary childhood. When his parents died and he was taken in by Batmam, he became accustomed to the world of crimefighting. His parental figure is Batman and his friends are the Teen Titans. As such, Dick has no idea of what “normal” is.
In older stories like The Menace of the Motorcycle Marauders and The Teenage Gap (Detective Comics 386) Robin’s crimefighting lifestyle is shown to cause him inner struggle as his desire to help others prevents him from living life normally, whether this means participate in his class elections or relegating himself to be a pariah, avoiding close personal relationships with his classmates.
During the 1970s, Dick went off to college, but this came to an end in 1980. Dick’s inability to maintain his social, academic, and crimefighting career lead to a collapse of his personal life. His compulsion to fight crime and help others as Robin forced him and his girlfriend Lori Elton to break up, and his late nights on patrol caused his grades to spiral down the drain. In his final issue at Hudson University, Dick is presented with an opportunity to recover his credits, but he instead opts to leave and fight crime rather than stay and study.
When Dick travels to Blüdhaven in the late ’90s, he attempts attempts to build up a normal life. Part of the reason that this run didn’t really work with me is that I don’t think that Dick’s circus and crimefighting background allows him to have a normal life, something he is attempting to do right now in Rebirth (though I do view this as largely regressive.)
To summarize: Dick Grayson has overcome a dark background to become a well-adjusted person, who strives for but ultimately fails to achieve a semblance of a normal life, and he is a character who stagnates if he does not continue to evolve and change. I apologize for the long tangent to the simple question of what I think makes Dick Grayson interesting (little of which will likely help you to write Deathstroke) as I got carried away explaining what I viewed to be a conflict for the character. I would like to see more of Nightwing in Deathstroke in any capacity, rather through present-day conflict with Deathstroke or flashbacks that expand upon his training of Rose.
I trust you to continue keep up the great work on the series.
Much of what I want to say has already been said. I want characters who can grow and change and mature. Just because they work through one set of problems doesn’t mean they won’t develop new problems to work through. I want characters who can retire and pass their mantles, and I want the transition to be handled respectfully. I want a real sense of legacy for superhero lines, not just staying in place or even regression. I want DC to realize that if a legacy character has taken the original’s place for more than ten years, then the legacy character has become the face of said identity more than the original, so bringing back the original is regression, not progression. I want heroes to pass on their titles to the next generation, not hand their titles back to the original holders of the name for the sake of “back to basics.” More than anything, I want D.C. to stop dwelling on the Silver Age. Stop trying to bring back every character and plot element from the writers’ childhood, and stop trying to strip those elements of their childish innocence. The Silver Age was stupid, but it was for kids, reworking those elements for an older audience loses the charm and retains the stupid. I want publishers to remember who their characters are supposed to be, and not destroy their personalities, such as turning Captain America into Captain Hydra, or making Barry Allen an irresponsible jerk who messes up his life and destroys timelines for his selfish desires. I want publishers, more Marvel than D.C., to stop oversaturating the market with big events, since crossovers lose their impact if they’re too common. Characters’ story arcs get swallowed up by massive overarching crises in a event, so they have no space to grow when there are too many events, which is also frustrating.
To zero in on one issue that’s symptomatic of almost every problem above, I’d like to bring up the return of Barry Allen and his current starring role in the Flash. He was dead for twenty something years, he received a minimum of character development when he was first active, and writers now don’t know what to do with him except for the amorphous idea that he’s the Flash and he’s really fast. On the other hand, his successor, Wally West, was carefully developed through his career as a hero, going from irresponsible child to mature superhero. Now Barry has come back and taken the title of the Flash back from Wally, who was first erased, then drastically overhauled, and is now relegated to the Titans. Silver age regression at its worst. What’s worse, Barry Allen’s death saved all of the DC multiverse, but upon his return, he destroyed the entire timeline because of reckless time travel antics, and from New 52 afterwards, was written as an irresponsible jerk, a womanizer, and a horrible mentor. Sometimes, it seems like the writers have just made him a copy of Wally because nobody knows how to write Barry anymore outside of Geoff Johns. One would think that if they’re going to have Barry back, writers can at least bother to keep him consistent.
Thank you for being willing to listen to us fans.
more experimental stories with quality art.
i don’t know what i want in a story, for example, the Flintstones… Never knew I wanted that until I read it.
It’d be nice to see some new characters, but I suspect work-for-hire people don’t want to make new characters.
One advantage of a deep history like DC’s is that writers can probably find an existing obscure character to dust off if they don’t want to give up a new one in work for hire.
I’d like to thank you for taking the time to listen to readers and ask what they’d like to see.
Gotham Knights- Since Detective Comics is more of a team book this could be a mystery anthology where the supposed trained detectives of the batfamily, which is basically all of them, actually do detective work. It can rotate main characters for each arc and doesn’t need to take place in Gotham. Doesn’t even need to always be Gotham or Bat characters. It just needs to be a detective book.
The Brave and the Bold- A place for all the team ups. One or two issue arcs where it’s just a rotating cast. A good way for lesser known characters to get a spotlight. Also it could be a place to introduce new characters, reintroduce old ones, and try more experimental storytelling.
Wally West- Give him his own book, even let him take Nightwing as support. He gets the most attention in the Titans, which is understandable but all those characters got pretty screwed over and derailed by the new 52 and Garth, Donna, Roy, and Lilith deserve attention without him taking all the focus and Nightwing just kinda taking up space. So pull them out and focus on the others and then maybe Starfire can finally graduate to the adult team.
Other than that I’d like to see characters grow and change and not make the exact same mistakes every couple issues or retread the exact same story from 5-10 years ago. Maybe that story isn’t canon anymore, but to most of the readers it is. It informs their view of the character. Which can understandably be frustrating to the writer who is using the version of the character that didn’t live that story.
Again thank you for taking the time to listen.
Wouldn’t it be better if Gotham Knights came back as a team book and Detective Comics resumed being, oh, about detection…? 🙂
True. Either way it would be nice to see more detective comics in general. More small scale stories that play on character and define the world. Averting world ending catastrophes and evil schemes can be fun, but tiring when it’s every arc. Not every story has to be end of the world or earth shattering. Just one solid book where it’s about solving mysteries that doesn’t get derailed by the next global cabal of super villains.
As someone who loves current Detective Comics, I have no desire to cut that run short – but I do think if they’d called it Gotham Knights, it would have been nice. Also, sales wouldn’t be as good. 🙂
That would be a great idea, even if I think there are a few too many Batman solo books out there. I do like the concept of the Detective Comics team book, even if the execution has fallen flat.
I would like consistency in how characters are portrayed in different books. Damian is a little shit. He is cold anti social, egotistical and doesn’t play well with other’s but he is also insecure, a hero and truly trying to be good. He is a boy struggling to live up to the expectations placed on him by his birthright.
An abused child conditioned from birth to kill and taught that this world is his. As such he is pompous yet vulnerable and doesn’t understand or know what love looks like. I would like writers to remember these things about Damian when writing him. Balance the savagery with some vulnerability and most importantly Damian is funny.
Damian and Nightwing just darling and Batman has been missing Robin.
We need Batman and Robin back. I think the runaway success of Rebirth Superman and how well received Batman and Robin guest appearances in other titles in Rebirth prove how much fans miss Batman and Robin and Bruce and Damian father son moments.
It feels strange that all Batman and Robin appearances in Rebirth have been outside the Batman books.
What happened in Lazarus. i really want this to be it. I don’t want this to mess with the Dick and Damian relationship which is frankly the only positive spot in the batverse and a fan favourite.
Honestly as a Damian Wayne fan DC is killing it for me right now. I love where he is and what they’re doing with him. However if you really what to spoil us then give us Nightwing and Robin, Nightwing in Supersons or Batman and Robin
Thanks you so much for listening really looking forward to Slade the hero in hi spiffy white suit.
LOL! I think his new suit (actually, a paint job over the current one) looks silly. It’s kind of meant to– stay tuned. 🙂
I already hated Wally West and then DC does this to my favorite hero Damian Wayne . Damian ‘s the reason I was reading this and then he gets a heavy hurt because of Wally and his Drama.
•
•
Bruce Wayne is horrible.
Scott Snyder’s Bruce Wayne comes out as uncaring, cold and dismissive of Damian’s pain. He cares nothing about Damian and would willing throw him under a bus to get what he wants.And now, the shit really hits the fan.
I want Damian in the batbooks Tom King and Scott Snyder’s treatment of Damian Wayne is shit pure and simple.
Speaking as a somewhat newer comic book reader (well, in comparison to some fans) who started reading in 2012 in high school; who ended up reading almost all of Wally’s whole run as Flash starting from Baron’s to most of John’s run. What I want to see as a Wally fan is his journey of getting his life back together and reconnecting with some of his past supporting cast and friends, moving back to Keystone and interacting more with the other Flash characters. His stories being a good mixture of grounded slice of life like Messner-Loeb’s run and longer, out of the box, soft sci-fi/fantasy arcs sprinkled throughout. For the most part though, I want fun quality stories to read with him. (with good art)
At the moment, Wally is a displaced character having an existential crises with having no life or career outside of his costume. (and now, maybe not even that) One thing which has always been a weak point for the character. He is practically brimming with storytelling potential with that premise alone. I mean, Barry has his job as a Forensic Scientist, Hal as a Pilot, Bruce’s a billionaire playboy and head of Wayne Enterprises, Kyle’s a Cartoonist. What does Wally do? Nothing. Geoff Johns attempted to fix this by giving him a job as a Mechanic, but that didn’t stick (imo I didn’t think it fit him). So he is stuck with nothing at the moment, but since his civilian life is a complete blank slate, that leaves the freedom of going in any kind of direction you want with it. I like the idea of him trying college again, it’s a retread, but it makes sense since he is in his 20s.
Plus, this premise is probably the best starting arc for a solo too, as the reader is basically getting introduced to the character’s world and situation at the same time as he is, and would get introduced to new and old supporting cast and villains in a progressive nature. I would do this by getting him moved out of Titans tower to Keystone after figuring how isolated and lonely living in the place, because it’s literally on an island and most likely more than not, he’s the only person there most of the time. Wally is a people’s person and thrives on interacting with others and can’t handle just being by himself for long periods of time. I kinda like the idea of him somehow becoming roommates with Piper or Hunter after a story arc, which would give him a constant support character until he gets better footing and his relationship with Linda is more developed. He can share the Flash Rogues gallery with Barry, since they naturally operate between the two cities, and you can build on what makes those two cities separate and different and why Wally chooses Keystone as his base of operations. Like Central being more the city of science innovation, with S.T.A.R Labs being based there, while Keystone is the blue collar city that manufactures all of S.T.A.R. labs stuff, but despite that and Central needing Keystone to thrive is the worse off city between the two and attracts people who can’t afford living in Central or have nowhere else to go. Another example of describing those cities is Central being more like Minneapolis, while Keystone is St. Paul.
Anyways, while I think Abnett is probably working on dealing with his issues, I really don’t want this plot-line dealt with in Titans. The other characters have gotten barely any spotlight as is and I don’t want this development to be rushed, this kind of storytelling idea works better being in a solo, where it can be naturally fleshed out instead of having to be fought through the main plot + other characters subplots in a team book. Idk, I just feel like he is completely restrained and isolated being only in the Titans book. It wouldn’t feel like DC is still treating the character poorly after getting messed with over constantly since Barry came back, even after that Rebirth special, as much if he could appear in The Flash title more or have his own solo, but apparently he can’t guest star that often in Flash because I read from somewhere an editor said they don’t want to confuse the readers between the two Wally’s, which is bull. Speaking of that, someone should really figure out a way to name the two Wallys differently though. Like have NuWally go by his middle name or something.
If for some reason DC thinks 2 Flash titles cannot sell, I disagree with the notion. It works fine with Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern had what? 4 or 5 books at one point? Wally was able to handle being the main Flash for 20+ years with stable sales, I think he could be able to support his own solo with a bit of help to get the character back to its feet. You can’t find out it won’t work if you don’t try at all, and give it a chance with support. If he can’t have a solo I would be fine with a Flash family book, because most of them are always around and supporting one another. If it’s about redundancy, well, Wally has the same type of powers as Barry, that’s true, but their personalities, habits, tricks, and how they go about situations are way different. There is an insane amount of things you can do with superspeed to differentiate between them.
Those are basically my thoughts about the whole deal with Wally atm. Thank you for being willing to reach out to fans of their opinions and have a discussion about it. I’ve been greatly enjoying your Deathstroke book and I’d never thought I would like the character before reading it.
What I want as a Damian Wayne fan.
Damian needs a father he is only 13.
Bruce has done that a lot, shouldn’t he be labeled a child abuser?
Physical child abuse is when a person physically hurts a child. The abuse is not an accident. Here are some examples of physical child abuse:Child abuse is more than bruises and broken bones. While physical abuse might be the most visible, other types of abuse, such as emotional abuse and neglect, also leave deep, lasting scars.
https://68.media.tumblr.com/ee0734d4f57b773dc9abbd9ce147957a/tumblr_inline_ny5h5jlSQL1qllu9h_540.jpg
Damian is broken. The art of Gleason, really shines here as well. The final three panels of Damian’s killing spree are gorgeous, with Damian being cloaked further and further in shadows as Goliath places a paw on his leg to comfort him.
I am also curious to know what kind of relationship Bruce and Damian have in Rebirth:
Leave your 13-year-old alone?
I think Bruce does not care much for Damian.he certainly doesn’t deserve the father of year award.Yeah Batman may be many things but a good father he really isn’t.
What I want? Okay
The Question – written by Priest and drawn by Fernando Blanco with colors from Brad Anderson or June Chung
Beware The Creeper – written and drawn by Brendan McCarthy
Deadman – written by J.M. DeMatteis and drawn by Jae Lee with colors from June Chung
Something written by Mike Carey
Another project written by Rob Williams
Something written by Simon Spurrier
interior art from Inaki Miranda, Ben Caldwell, Greg Smallwood, Ben Oliver, Chris Burnham, Bill Sienkiewicz.
New fresh voices, not the same writer that previously worked on a character returning after 20 years to work on the same character.
Finally, I found you..
Thanks for your work in Deathstroke.. I liked the batman and robin work here too..
Nothing against Damian(I am his fan) or Lazarus Contract but… Grant is still dead, what a shame, I expected a happy ending.. However, I like Rose and I want to see her as Ravager again..
Didio Why is Bruce such a bad father ?
And I really hate Wally West now.His fans are terrible.
Well now that it’s out in the open, can we make Priestwing happen? Also to side with Chill’s comment, Slade wearing a cape is probably the funniest concept and I hope everyone he encounters makes a point to tell him.
Wow. Finally somebody gets it. Stay tuned…
Nightwing needs to go back to a Grayson-style story with all the core essence present both in Grayson and Nightwing previous solo runs. A “Black Widow/Batman” mesh If anything. He needs to go back to Spyral as freelance spy and vigilante for the Titans and do away with him having a civilian life unlesss it’s his relaxing/off days! He needs a different approach because young hero in a city to protect is overdone and boring! But it needs to be done where fans don’t feel too bitter about it! Let the naysayers get mad. Because hugs and flower boy Grayson protecting a city is flat out boring.
He needs to be projected as smart, competent, and tactically too. Because in various books and media, he’s just a pretty boy with some martial arts. Damian can get all the uber martial techniques but not the person trained by BATMAN? At the very least, give him another teacher. His solo should be him stopping crime wherever it pops up with Damian and Rose showing up the most often given their histories. Nightwing should be THE book you’d expect Deathstroke and all kinds of characters to crossover! I’d love to see more Wildstorm characters too!
I actually agree with all of that. Grayson is not a bad character, I just think there could be more to him, and we’ve seen that with the “Grayson” series and other places.
And Bludhaven should be his HQ. No sense in letting it go to ruin established things and it needs to be a more well off city because Gotham 2.0 is bland. Stop following the Batman formula. It’s overdue that each and every book (not just Nightwing) get a direction in which suits the character best, not what suited another character because he’s the most popular.
Oh wow thanks for asking for our opinions.
First off I can’t stop staring at Slade in his new “heroic” costume. I don’t know… I can’t tell if he looks like he belongs on a best left forgotten techno punk album cover (Defiance and the kids) or some fashion challenged pirate without the feather hat. I have no idea why I thought of those two things but it must mean it’s left a strong impression on me so I guess that’s a good thing!
Okay hopeful desires of mine regarding Deathstroke. Well actually at first I want to mention that I really like that you restored Dick having at least a connection to the Wilson family again through training Rose. One of, if not my most, favorite hero/villain relationships was between Dick and Slade. I always thought Dick had very interesting ties to the Wilson family. Be it from being enemies with Grant. Mentoring/inspiring Rose. Friends/teammates with Jericho. Honestly Slade and Dick are way to complicated. I remember them going back and forth between hate, respect, friendly distrust to all kinds of oppositions that it’s a wonder their heads aren’t spinning.
Basically I liked that Dick was growing up to become a worthy adversary to someone as terrible and imposing as Slade Wilson. Almost like Slade was kind of mentoring Dick (I guess he’s not called Darker/evil Batman for nothing) in some ways. They’ve definitely had a very evolving dynamic where Slade seems to respect and despise Dick’s ability to not be completely corrupted by him in the past. Though at the same time Slade can always get under Dick’s skin and hit where it hurts most. I think they brought out (or could) very different perspectives that other characters would miss. Pre 52 Slade can instantly tell when Dick is faking it and make him lose his temper pretty violently (in a way that might shock some characters). Dick’s pretty much suppose to be everything Slade isn’t and in past comics has done more for Slade’s kids (eh, 2 out of 3 or maybe just one. Both sons kicked the can) emotionally. That’s probably another thing that stands out is that with say, Batman vs Deathstroke it’s just them usually battling with their physical prowess or outsmarting each other. With Dick there’s that extra battle of morality that even seems to place Rose at the center at times. In your Deathstroke I got the impression that even if Rebirth Slade doesn’t respect Dick as a huge threat he does respect his views, enough to entrust shaping his daughter’s worldview. The Lazarus Contract between Dick and Slade is a very interesting to me and I really liked how you set up their (Dick. Rose. Slade) connection like that (would explain why the Titans didn’t die a long time ago). I’m definitely looking forward to your take on this pretty complicated dynamic between the three should you choose to explore it more (if not, I’m just glad we got something again).
I’ve got some more thoughts but I’ll just leave with this. Thanks and have a good day.
Something that has just came to my mind regarding Damian (and this has nothing to do with the crossover):
Damian should not be leading a team. I get it, he’s popular, in universe he’s the one with the money, the resources, the intelligence network and the life of training. Sure. He’s also 13 years old and SEVERELY lacking in any meaningful social skills. The “experience” angle falls to the ground, even with the current Teen Titans Rebirth, if we remember that we have the daughter of a demon and a super-powered alien princess who fought her way out of a slaver’s empire after years of abuse.
This is not a slight on Damian, I love him, but why the hell do these more experienced, more viable characters all fall in line, without question, to this little dictator?
The Teen Titans, as they are now, should be a learning experience, not a teaching one. It should be the very first enviroment in his life where he actually has to deal with the fact that he’s not the center of the universe, where he learns to actually value life instead of protecting it as an extension of his father’s mission, and where he starts to deal with his massive inferiority complex.
It should not be a place he goes to play Batman light.
I agree with that. Damian is too young and inexperienced, and his temper isn’t exactly endearing. Why are the other Titans letting him run roughshod over them? Even if he eventually becomes a leader, he has to grow into it. Right now he has neither the trust nor affection of the other Titans.
That’s exactly what it should be. Robin’s role on the titans IS Batman lite. It has always being.
Besides wasn’t coming to Gotham and leaving his legacy as Heir to the Demon behind him learning that he’s not the centre of the universe.
I mean he gave up being the modern day Alexandra to slum it as Robin.
His father choose Gotham over him and his mother has a fridge full of replacement Damian’s pretty sure he knows more than most that he isn’t the centre of the universe.
I think that he should carry on as leader. This is a learning experience. He is learning to be good and he is learning to work with other’s and develop his social skill.
Traditionally, Robin has been Batman-lite for the Titans because he is calm, rational, smart, and charismatic. He is a good arbiter who not only gives the team orders on the field, but reigns in their excesses and coordinates their wildly different personalities to increase teamwork and friendship. He provides a link between Titans and older heroes and mediates for them if needed, Damian is none of that. All he has is intelligence and fighting skills.
All he has is intelligence and fighting skills.
That’s what makes him so good.
I more or less agree. I don’t know why Robin has to be the leader of their own team. Dick is a natural leader so it makes why he’s always leader. Tim proved himself to be both good at giving and recieving orders. Jason in the current Outlaws is also shown to be a good leader to his teammates. Damian…. not so much.
It’s not really entertaining to watch a mouthy 13 year old with bad leadership boss older and more experienced heroes around (I like Damian a lot for the record). It’s also not like Damian has to be the leader for TT to work.
It honestly would have been better if Damian had his own team of lesser used/new characters (like Static Shock, Miss Martian, Maya, star girl) while being mentored by the older generation. I still can’t believe Kori, Beast Boy and Raven have all, more or less gone from being Dick’s teammates to being Tim and Jason’s to now on a team being lead by Damian. Why do these 3 get pushed further back to the youngest generation while the other Titans get to grow up and be with their age group? At least let them be mentors like they used to be.
All the other Robins, even Jason, know how to help and support their teammates. It’s what allows them to build that rapport that is the base of why their teammates listen to them. Damian needs someone else to guide him, instead of letting him push others around and doing his own thing.
As a huge Damian fan, I 100% agree with this. The Teen Titans need to be a learning experience with his social skill and I believe Starfire is the right one to lead the Titans, just like in the animated movie The Judas Contract. She will be perfect to make the team bond with each other. Sir Priest, will you tell Ben Percy about this, please?
Also please tell him that, aside my number one fav Damian, I would like to see Jackson Hyde shines in Teen Titans too. I am a new DC comics reader and still know nothing about him. One thing I didn’t expect is The Lazarus Contract crossover got me liking Jackson Hyde. Poor him. Everyone forgot about him but not once he made it a big deal nor did he has a grudge about it. I am really excited for his arc next.
Wow… So, what I really want, right?
I want you to scream to all DC to #StopWomanizerDickGrayson2k17. Really. Please.
If I’m being honest, I really long for Starfire in Dick’s life again and also having a life without him (I hope that maded sense.
Hmm, I want to see Damian NOT leading the Teen Titans, I want to see in some issue or other a actually not-crisis time. Just the batboys being boys!
Also, I’m really sad that Damian only lasted ONE edition in Gotham Academy, boy did they had potential in there? Damian having to fit in the normal life? Damian having to keep his secres
secret* and failing? (it cut out)
I love fighting Damian, mas it’s more “Robbin” than “Damian”. I want to see this child having his moments as a actual child, (btw I’m just waiting for his puberty hit, that will be hilarious)
Am I asking too much to bring back Conner and Bart together with Tim? I think I am, but I really miss them and would be thrilled to see their views of this new Teen Titans. Also, I always loved Mar’i Grayson from Kingdom Come, it’s a shame she and Wally’s kids never really made it to canon continuity, it would be really fun and interesting seeing Dad Grayson of a half alien and a literal “Flying Grayson”, haha!
Hugs from Brazil here, Mr.Priest, stay awesome!
Personally, I hate bringing characters back from the dead. I had no choice in Deathstroke because they’d literally wiped out DS’s entire supporting cast. I think writers should measure twice cut once before killing off a character because, if I have my way, once a character dies, he stays dead. Period. Otherwise, we have no credibility.
Well if character death was permanent I don’t think DC would even have a superhero roster at this point. Seems like a lot of comic writers love a good death fake out/resurrection story.
Although I agree with this, in this particular matter things are iffy. The “Bart Allen” we saw in New52 was not Bart Allen at all (he was not named Bart Allen, didn’t have Bart Allen’s origin, and did not really share a shred of his personality). On a smaller scale, same can be said aboput Conner. And Tim, we know is not dead. So, out of this 3, 2 we just haven’t seem since ’11 reboot.
Why is Scott Snyder and Tom King so against Damian Wayne? I’m just curious as to why Bruce seemingly seems to disregard his son. I really liked his relationship wit Bruce in batman n robin,I fear for the future of Damian. The books he’s headlining are no longer within the bat office and now he’s with editors that have been pretty bad lately.Snyder and King made it very clear that they hate Damian.
Poor Damian Wayne. He can break all of a grown man’s major bones in an eyeblink but he’s still just a kid yearning for his dad. Too bad Bruce Wayne came back from the dead with no love for his son. Batman and various Robins have been separated many times over the decades but the fact that Damien is Bruce’s biological son and 13 is sad. Damian is my favorite Robin, and probably my favorite Batman character full stop .
Ditto So, Damian is off limits to Batoffice in the rebirth because he already has TT and Super Sons ? Then i will no longer buy thr Batbooks.I’m just a Damian fan.
“overexposed”?Damian is only in 2 books. Jon Kent is in 5 books.Duke in all the batbooks.
Damian is in TT, Supersons, That made me scratch my head,Why is he not in the Batman books? He is Robin !Damian should be with his father. I want more Bruce and Damian interaction. I want more Damian in the batman book.
I believe I read something on twitter where tynion, who is the writer of detective comics called Damian the hardest Robin to write for.
that the BatOffice simply does not want to promote Damian. What is DCs problem ?
are they afraid of an arabic robin ? He can write white bread Tim Drake and Drake is so boring,
Damian is easily the second most popular Robin. You need new writers for them batbooks.
Lois & Clark could adopt Damian ^^ He deserves good parents.
Seriously Bruce Wayne is a terrible father. He is the originator of child endangerment in comics. He heavily neglected Damian. Mainly, I blame the writers for badly handling the relationship.
I’m really happy to see a creator such as yourself be open with fans to try and better understand things and improve these comics we all love so much, it’s nice to know that there’s an exchange and it isn’t a bad one. Thank you, Mr. Priest.
What I would love from the big two and DC especially is a diversification of their line. In 2015, despite its failure, (and despite some its bombs and other flaws), I felt DC’s DCYou initiative was a great step towards this. The mantra was “Creativity over Continuity” and they made the line and creatives behind the books more diverse than before. From the art to the stories, each book was steeped in a different genre and felt different. The company wasn’t aiming at the same old audience and regurgitating complacent comics that are strictly meat and potatoes and nothing more. Your Deathstroke run is a breath of fresh air among Rebirth and truly feels like a DCYou book, with its unique flavor, tone and structure, it’s genuingely doing something new and different and is standing out from the rest of the line. We need more books like that. I would like to bring up Tom King’s work specifically to better explain myself. During DCYou, King (currently on Batman), wrote Omega Men, a revamp of the 80’s property and made it unlike any other comic being published at the time. It used the 9 panel grid, it was a deeply layered and interesting comic book about the unbreakable cycle of hate and the nature of war, it was post 9/11 Star Wars. With a morally ambiguous cast and some strong and well executed themes, in its 12 issue run it became a jewel in DC’s publishing line up unlike any other. It wasn’t a book throwing out 1st person captions and beating the reader over the head with exposition, which could clearly be discerned from the imagery, it wasn’t just another superficial story that you forgot after 5 minutes, which tried nothing new or aspired to nothing greater. We need progressive books like that, like your Deathstroke run. Books that ask interesting questions and have substance and write stories in clever ways to answer said questions, ultimately staying with the reader for years. We can’t just keep looking back at the old classics and rehashing them or remixing them, we need to create new classics. We need to focus on making the masterpieces of today that last till tomorrow. Ones that progress the medium and the character.
Rebirth is generic cape comics. A lot of it is decent, but I want to see those sort of comics. Bold comics, that take risks and move forward. That don’t stagnate, that don’t get complacent. That try to earn the reader’s bucks by giving them an experience unlike all the ones they’ve had before. In a time where TV and film rule and comics have to compete, that’s the answer. We need those sort of comics. I would ask that you convey to DC how important that is. Risks shouldn’t be taken just on lower tier characters like, say, Swamp Thing or Omega Men. I want those bold takes on the Flash. How about a slice of life Flash series? What about a gritty crime drama GL comic? What about a psychedelic Deadman comic? What about a silver-age vibe Batman? (diversity in every way, genre, structure, try to shake it up and do fresh stuff, entertain the reader!)
And that brings me to my next point. Draw from more than one well. I’d like to bring up Green Arrow. Most draw from very specific eras of the character for stories. But you hit a point at which it just feels like stagnation. Batman’s had this problem imho and this is why Grant Morrison’s run felt so fresh, he was bringing back and channeling eras of the character that were ignored or untapped. Bringing those things back made things fresh! Draw from more than one well for the character. Otherwise, you’re paving the way to stagnation. For Green Arrow, go back to the original Golden Age comics, look at kirby’s stuff and some silver age, think about how you can bring in that stuff to the modern era and push the character and franchise forward. How you can enrich things, so on so forth. For each character, I think this is important. And also, like the creators of the past, who didn’t draw from comics, but various other things, film, poems and other things, draw from different resources to infuse something new into the books. I swear I remember Darwyn Cooke had a great rant on this.
Stop chasing the dragon. This builds off my last point, but I think DC needs to stop chasing certain dragons. For instance, Geoff Johns’ Green Lantern. When he did his run, it was fresh, fun, and it pushed things forward. It created all new things and it felt different from what had come before. It was a great action blockbuster. But ever since that run wrapped up, DC has been trying to replicate it. They won’t stop chasing that dragon, even now in Rebirth. It feels like Johns 2.0 at best. This applies to other franchises as well, like Flash and more. DC needs to stop chasing the dragon of the past and try and build the dragon of the future, if that makes sense. As soon as Johns finished, they should’ve brought on a creator with a different, fresh vision. After Johns’ 9 year action blockbuster saga that felt like high fantasy, you could’ve done a crime drama, focusing on space crime cases. Maybe infuse a little Judge Dredd, who knows? But point being, shake things up, don’t try and do more of the same, deliver fresh and new. Don’t make it a headline, actually do it. I want to see consistency and continuity and progression as much as the next person, those are my favorite things. But so are bold stories that innovate and not regurgitate.
Biggest thing though- Quit the Synergy. Books like Flash and Green Arrow all suffer from synergy, I feel. They have for a long time now. Some random film or tv show that the reader couldn’t care less about having drastic impact on the comic they’re reading and dictating certain choices made in it? Come on. I could count on my fingers how much positive things came out of synergy in the last decade. Synergy resulted in a completely devastating and failed attempt at replacing Wally. And EC had to bring back original Wally after that disaster and bend over backwards to explain the new Wally. Do we really need that mess? Can comics not just tell their own stories instead of being treated like an inferior medium? If the books are going to be made into bad tie-ins for media projects, at least do it fully and don’t half ass it. Then the readers will get the message and move on, trying to meet them half way is no way to go. Creatives should not have to transport film or tv characters or adapt the choices of some hollywood exec or writer into the series, when that choice was made for a different project with different agendas and requirements. It cheapens and ruins the comics. It’s why inserting TV characters like Diggle into the Green Arrow comic has been so foolish, I feel. They’ve never been able to give him an actual purpose in it and he’s just around because of the show. (At least when Binder brought in Olsen, he made him Superman’s Tawky Tawny) I think things like this need to stop. Kick out those tv/film stuff, and just innovate. Do not disrespect comics and drag them down with this, accord them the respect you would to any other medium.
Sorry, that was all rather long, if you’ve read it, i’m grateful. I appreciate you even taking the time to ask and even perhaps listen. I hope to see you do more work at DC (maybe Green Lantern! A comic about space crime with substance rather than just ppl punching each other would be great!) (Or Green Arrow, fitting for you, it was O’Neil’s creation and I think you make the statements you wanna make, whether it be about politics or other issues, really well, while crafting a beautiful story and providing it the appropriate emotional depth it requires! I’m going to stop geeking out now, haha!) Needless to say, love your work and love you passion for the medium. That you extended your hand and asked to know is a great thing, sometimes I wish others did the same.
I’m so sorry about all the typos and other errors as well as the rambling nature of this post, Mr. Priest. I got a bit too passionate there. But to add to the above, here are some more specific things-
-Wonder Woman is among my favorite characters of all time. DC and Mr. Didio love to put her next to Batman and Superman and the word Trinity gets thrown around a lot. I love the concept, we love the concept, but has it ever really been true? Has DC ever actually treated the WW franchise like it has the Batman and Superman franchises? If she’s part of the trinity, treat her as such. Bruce and Clark have had Action and Detective for ages now, where is Diana’s Sensation? She was in Batman v Superman, she just had her own movie which broke 100 million and had rave reviews, she’s going to be in Justice League, she’s headlining their Superhero Girls initiative. These few years have been the time of Wonder Woman. Give her what she deserves. Give Wonder Woman a SECONDARY TITLE. Bring back Sensation and just tell good stories with her and her cast. Greg Rucka’s built up a brilliant foundation to use.
– Where is Shadowpact? Justice League Dark has always been a weak idea, Shadowpact is the property we need to revamp and rebirth.
– It’d be nice to see Batman not be mired in tragedy all the time.
– Where is there no female Justice League yet? Put Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl, Mary Marvel, Mera and others onto a team and just make a female justice league. So many ladies never get their due, this could be the place to showcase them and make them shine. Especially if you used a rotating roster. Making a Birds of Prey title isn’t enough, I want to see heavy hitters like Big Barda and others on a team working together and doing cool things, with great writing behind them. Wonder Woman leading an all female JL with a revolving roster, come on. It literally writes itself and is definitely marketable.
– Do more elseworlds books. Nightwing New Order is great and all, but we need more. We need to see more bold takes on these characters, especially when the creatives are freed from the constraints of continuity and can completely do their own thing. Why not make some multiversal ongoings? Grant Morrison’s work on Multiversity created so many worlds to explore and write about and his oneshots were like new #1’s, waiting to be continued. Why has nothing been done with that? It’s worth publishing books that aren’t taking place in the regular universe and aren’t affecting it, just let them be fun, solid selfcontained stories. Build out these new worlds and enrich things. To get back to the point about an all female JL, heck, do an Earth-11 ongoing! (Earth 11 is the world where all the heroes are gender bent. So you have Batwoman, Superwoman, Wondrous Man, etc)
– Use the corners of the universe that you leave untouched. Where’s the magical side of the DC Universe? That’s barely there anymore, it’s so woefully underused. Why not explore the DC cosmos and delve into the cosmology a bit more? Why not get into various cosmic entities and other things? Look over at Marvel, they have a rich cosmic universe (or had, I should say. Though Ewing is doing solid work atm). Their cosmic entities and other elements are fantastic. From Eternity, Infinity to Galactus and more! DC is killing its cosmic story potential by limiting it to strictly Green Lantern. Why not do Captain Comet? Why not do more Adam Strange? You could make a team of cosmic heroes and have their explore various corners of the DC cosmos to flesh it out more and tackle deep, interesting philosophical questions and do crazy high concept sci-fi. Their cosmos could be so much more than it is right now, its being wasted. Do more cosmic series! I would love for you to tell this to Mr. Didio. Let Keith Giffen do what he did at Marvel and give him some cosmic books or something, just get a great, visionary creator with a lot of skill and great ideas, then let them run wild. Let them innovate and create and tell great, fantastic stories. Let them flesh out alien races, create the culture of these races and create the new modern Kree/Skrull War or something. Make the new stuff that will stick for the future. Heck, make all the gods and pantheons (say, of Thanagar, Thanagarian Gods could be great!) of the various races of the DCU. Like Kirby took Norse myth and put a sci-fi twist on it, there’s so much to be done. What kind of gods would an alien race like The Khunds have, for instance? What would they look like? How would they interact with their race? There’s just so much to be done with the DC cosmos, but it’s not being done. And it shouldn’t be done in Green Lantern, either. Do more cosmic books and give them to talented creators with a vision.
Looking at what’s established like this, extrapolating and trying to create new things and pushing forward is exactly how we get great classics that last forever. I would really love to see DC do things like that.
-Use the format of books like Injustice. Now, Injustice is a digital-first tie-in series to the video game series Injustice where all the DC heroes tend to split into two sides and fight. I’m not really a fan of the series, but the comic is ridiculously popular. While I think the actual comic is bad, I think there’s a great lesson to be learned from its success. It’s a cheap comic that comes out every week and it gives you an ENTIRE UNIVERSE with a focused storyline. You don’t need to read a 100 other books, nor do you require any prior continuity knowledge to get what’s going on. You pay very little, you get consistent delivery, you get a massive cast of characters, a full storyline and a showcase of an entire UNIVERSE. It’s almost like a manga in Japan. Just a self contained series chronicling an entire storyline about one full universe. The format WORKS, regardless of one’s feelings on the story. Use the format more. The format could lead to so many great things. One comic telling a gigantic story of an entire universe can be fantastic. Need I remind anyone of Cooke’s amazing New Frontier? But really, you could do so many other things with it, I would like to see DC use this format of self contained storytelling more often. I see so many people tell me they got into comics via the Injustice tie-in comic, so it’s definitely a format that’s working to some extent.
-Use Grant Morrison’s All-Star Superman as a template. Morrison in 12 issues told a full story that was a love letter to silver age superman and the character’s history, but structured it so that each issue on its own was a complete story, like an episode and made sure it in someway pushed the overall narrative forward. His compressed storytelling really helps. Most of Rebirth is DECOMPRESSED. One issue’s worth of plot is dragged out for up to 4 and the reader feels cheated. There’s barely any content and some issues are just one scene stretched out for 20 pages. Most rebirth crossovers and events have suffered from this problem in my mind. I think we need more hypercompression, where the reader actually gets the bang for his buck. Writers seem unable to uninterested in using their page real estate appropriately a lot of the times in these cases. Guys like Tim Seeley do great episodic storytelling (King and Seeley’s Grayson series did this incredibly well. Each issue a mission and each issue the story progressed in some way, building and building). This decompression along with exposition dumping captions that tell the reader what’s going on as if it’s some prose novel and not a visual medium bug the hell out of me. Show, don’t tell is a cardinal rule that seems to get broken often…which brings me to-
– CAPTION USAGE. Books like The Flash are egregious about its usage, off the top of my head. Captions aren’t a bad thing, they have their place, they work great when used well, they can aid the imagery in the comic and enchance it with deep insight and context. But they’ve become a lazy writing crutch. Reduce this. In fact, I’d like to see editorial challenge most of its writers to write books with out captions. Guys like Seeley and King did it on Grayson and succeeded so well, showing the reader rather than telling the reader. We need more of that. We need more of your Deathstroke. Show, don’t tell.
These are just some thoughts, but I would love to see DC do some cool things with what they have. Again, thank you for reading at all. It means a lot.
“Nightwing New Order is great and all”
Really? It is? Huh, I thought that it will be released in August. Don’t say that a new Elseword comic title is great and all when it’s not out yet because it may turn out to be total crap. But I agree that some multiversal comics should appear, well, only if the writers have a really good idea for that anyway. No reason to push them in that direction if they can’t deilver a story like that.
“Where is there no female Justice League yet?”
Well, why isn’t there male Justice League yet? I don’t think that creating a female only team whether it’s called JL or anything else, is a good idea. Same with male only team. That’s a bad way to show equality. It would be better if it were teams like current JLA, altough currently there is already too much teambooks. More solo female books, that would be better, of course they would still need a writers with a great vision. Best books featuring ladies right now are WW and HQ, Batwoman is fairly new yet it already started falling in sales, soon it will probably reach the same level as Superwoman and Birds of Prey. That level is not bad, I doubt that they would cancel them anytime soon yet any more new woman centric title could bring the danger of cancellation closer. I can see why DC is reluctant to give more book of this sort. Thay saying,
… if they want to bring more female audience to them, they should focus on picking writers that HAVE a definite vision for ladies books.
“Use the corners of the universe that you leave untouched”
Agreed.
“Why not explore the DC cosmos and delve into the cosmology a bit more?”
They are doing it. Very soon Dark Matter event will launch and we will explore the so called Dark Multiverse.
“Why not get into various cosmic entities and other things? Look over at Marvel, they have a rich cosmic universe (or had, I should say. Though Ewing is doing solid work atm). Their cosmic entities and other elements are fantastic. From Eternity, Infinity to Galactus and more! DC is killing its cosmic story potential by limiting it to strictly Green Lantern”
Now I’m dissapointed in your knowledge of DC cosmic universe. DC has it all. New Gods from Apokolips and New Genesis, various cosmis entities created by Neil Gaiman like the Endless and loooot of other stuff. DC have as rich universe as Marvel. The main difference is that Marvel’s feel exploited too much, everything explained and barely any mysteries left, I don’t want that to happen with DC. Dark, magical side of DC? I feel like the books featuring these stories should have limited runs, 6-20 issues that would follow one simple vision. That would be a good way to DC to see in which characters readers are interested in. Lot of long runs in 52 had to be cancelled because they weren’t selling. But they WERE selling at first, just writers lost the touch after 20+ issues. And let’s be honest money is important, nothing we can do about it.
“Use Grant Morrison’s All-Star Superman as a template”
Uhhh. That’s to be honest up to writers, some can’t deliver a story in such a compressed format. Let the writers use their style and not something that worked for Morrison because it may turn into total crap.
>Really? It is? Huh, I thought that it will be released in August. Don’t say that a new Elseword comic title is great and all when it’s not out yet because it may turn out to be total crap.
I wasn’t talking about quality, but more so that it was a step in the right direction. Meaning DC should do more elseworlds minis, though yeah, I agree, it could easily go bad given the premise.
>Now I’m dissapointed in your knowledge of DC cosmic universe. DC has it all. New Gods from Apokolips and New Genesis, various cosmis entities created by Neil Gaiman like the Endless and loooot of other stuff. DC have as rich universe as Marvel. The main difference is that Marvel’s feel exploited too much, everything explained and barely any mysteries left,
New Gods and the work done in Sandman are very much contained in a bubble though. It rarely gets used or is put behind glass to be untouched. What’s the point of having something if you’re not going to do anything with it? Morrison talked about how he would launch a New Gods title after FC, but there was no one ready to step up and do anything with them. My point is, if you’re not going to use what you have and if they feel like they’re contained in their own bubbles a lot of their times, it’s kind of a waste. That’s why I’d rather see them make newer stuff that can be used and used more consistently, ala what DC did during Johns-era GL, where tons of new things came out, all of which get used. I do see your point about things being exploited too much and losing the wonder and mystery, but them being used gives us great stories, I think we need some usage. There’s definitely a balance which can be struck, I feel. This applies to Legion as well, LOSH has some great stuff (which is why the GL franchise keeps borrowing from it), but you don’t see it get properly showcased or used as often as you’d expect. We need to see some stuff made which can be consistently used. If not made, revamp some old stuff. Always seeing a bunch of different colored lanterns punching each other is what DC Cosmic has been reduced to, I think we can do better than that. It’s very limiting. Books like Miracle Man are definitely a step in the right direction (the previews look fantastic, and it’s a great team, the interviews made it seem promising, hopefully it does great. King did fantastic cosmic work with Omega Men, we need more of that)
>if they want to bring more female audience to them, they should focus on picking writers that HAVE a definite vision for ladies books.
Agreed
“Books like Miracle Man are definitely a step in the right direction”
There is nothing I’d want more than a Miracle Man book.
Except maybe blue-haired Mera
Less house style; more variety in art.
Less Batman. I love Batman, but we don’t need to be doing this “Whenever Batman’s not onscreen, all the other characters should be asking, ‘Where’s Batman?'” thing. (Seriously, I thought the WW movie was great, but it didn’t need a damn framing device where she sends Batman an email. The comics are even worse about it; every third new title is Batman-related. They relocated Jonah Hex to 19th-century Gotham City, for God’s sake. And Barry Allen’s got a murdered parent now, because every superhero needs to be more like Batman.)
Fewer crossovers and events, more self-contained stories.
Less worry about continuity. I’m OK with canon being whatever serves a given story.
More happy books, more fun books, more kids’ books.
Absolutely no new Watchmen stories.
The problem is, DC has tried all this stuff and it hasn’t made money. Some of my favorite DC books of the last few years have been Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE, Dial H, and Gotham Academy; they’ve all been canceled due to low sales. I have to acknowledge that the books I like best haven’t found an audience.
I do think that part of that is on DC not giving new ideas enough time to work. I think a lot of the DCYou books had real potential but most were canceled, what, before their first arc was even over? I appreciate that DC took a chance on nontraditional books, and that I can’t expect a publisher to keep propping up titles that don’t sell, but I can’t help thinking they could have given some of them a *little* more time.
I also think DC’s really blown it with Vertigo. Sure, it’s been a long time since Sandman, and Fables is over, and those are not easy successes to duplicate. But they’re *really* going to be hard to duplicate now that the contract terms are less favorable to creators than they used to be, and Berger and Bond have both been ousted. They’ve still got Astro City, and it’s still great, but I honestly can’t name another current Vertigo title.
Young Animal at least seems like DC is aware of the problem and trying to give us something Vertigo-like.
So that’s DC.
Marvel, in brief, needs to knock off the events and the new #1s, and should have gotten out in front of the Secret Empire backlash months ago. The Legacy hook they’re going with as their next sales gimmick looks promising; legacy heroes are one of DC’s biggest strengths.
More books can be a good thing when they stand on their own and aren’t doing what the other books are doing (Squirrel Girl and Moon Girl are a couple of current favorites), but they need to stop launching multiple spinoffs of every successful book. Just because you *can* put out 8 different X-books a month doesn’t mean you should. And while I was thrilled that Marvel thought Black Panther was a big enough hit to sustain three simultaneous ongoing titles, well, it turns out it wasn’t; both spinoffs got canceled after just one story arc, and it’s possible that they even dragged down sales of the main BP book while they were at it.
Image is putting out some of the best books in its history. I think part of that is down to Vertigo dropping the ball, part of it is due to the runaway success of Walking Dead (and, to a lesser extent, books like Saga, Wicked + Divine, etc.), but a lot of it is down to Image committing to publishing a wide variety of books from very talented creators.
In a nutshell, I want something different. I want a disruption of the formula.
I guess I’d want DC to pay more mind to lot of the relationships that have been well established over the decades.
Cyborg’s Titan history. Tim’s relationship to Dick. Tim’s whole generation. Dick and Kara (where’s my Dick, Donna and Kara trinity). Donna and Kori. Cass and Bab’s. The Titans (sometimes confuse me). A lot of relationships that have been around for a long time are gone. There’s hope for restoration as some have come back. But in some cases I find it impossible (Bruce and Kate have pretty much replaced almost everything Bab’s was to Cass so goodbye to that special bond. Whatever they can develop now will be totally different).
I don’t think I’m alone. At least when I dip into fandom I see a lot of fans complaining about how DC doesn’t care about keeping/developing their favorite relationships between the characters that have been around for decades.
I guess I hope DC keeps re-establishing the iconic relationships (that n52 kind of…. annihilated) and builds upon them (or doesn’t completely break them down again in another reboot)
Well my only gripe to your Deathstroke run Mr. Priest is that Assasins use “Dark Web” to get their contract. Maybe use other way or made up shit like in John Wick 2 that the contract is analogue cause for me Dark web is overdone.Cyborg or other technopath heroes can easily translate digital information now we’re living in the digital age. And also the 10% of the brain thing is also IMHO tired,silly and proven wrong scientific concept that is done to death. But overall the characterization, storyline and most importantly the themes of your book is so thoughtprovoking and progressive. Like you said, Deathstroke is not about violence, but the consequence of violence.
If you’re simply asking what story I want to see, two come to mind.
======================================
1. In some interview you talked about doing an arc where Slade is stripped of all his resources and has to build himself back up, and only then do we see what he’s truly capable of. That just sounds way, way too rad.
I want to see Deathstroke imprisoned, then beat up the entire prison and go on the run. Maybe not that specifically, but something alone those lines.
2. Midnighter. I want to see Deathstroke fight Midnighter. Kyle Higgins teased that fight back in his run on Slade, and never before have I felt so betrayed. You’ve talked about Vigilante coming after Deathstroke, but Vigilante is outclassed! Midnighter isn’t, he’s basically Deathstroke x3, and therein lies an entire event worth of material.
Midnighter is, frankly, the coolest motherf**ker ever, and seeing him try, fail or even succeed in bringing down the Terminator could define both characters really well. Which one of those two is even more principled than the other? Also, it’s just a flat out awesome fight.
======================================
Am I doing this right?
Absolutely.
(#1) was our original launch arc for Rebirth DS but got scrapped because the company mandate was to reinforce the core– the basic 101’s of the character– rather than begin with a deviation. But the idea still lives and breathes and hopeflly will see the light of day soon.
2– Midnighter, huh? Okay, I’ll look into that.
Okay, I’ll add to this: I want to see Deathstroke fighting Midnighter too, but only if you or Orlando are writing it. Maybe a colab.
A Midnighter Vs Deathstroke collab between Priest and Orlando? Do things even get that awesome?
Usually, they don’t. But there’s hope.
Deathstroke vs Midnighter has always been something fans wanted to see. In the first run on Deathstroke in the New 52 Grant was actually *killed* by someone who resembled Midnighter at that time and he knew Deathstroke. They are both known for being the ultimate tactician in the world and being enhanced.
DC should make Mera’s hair blue
Forgot to mention, if crossovers are meant for people to start reading titles that they were not reading before, Lazarus worked. It made me pick up Deathstroke because I loved the non-traditional structure you used. Actually, it was my favorite issue of the crossover.
On that line, the current Teen Titans group make absolutely no sense. Starfire is beyond her teens and honestly she would never bend to Damian’s leadership. She found it hard to bend to Nigtwing’s leadership back in the original Wolfman/Perez Titans, why would she bend to a stubborn, highly difficult, egotistic kid? I love Damian, but he is all that and that is what makes his character interesting.
There are quite a few young, new characters running around DC that would make for a much better fit. Damian, the son of Talia al Ghul; Emiko Queen, current Red Arrow, daughter of Shado; Maya Ducard, Nobody, already a friend of Damian, daughter of the villain Nobody; Cassandra Cain, trained assassin, daughter of Lady Shiva. If you need to have a traditional TT character, then have Raven, daughter of Trigon. To avoid it become “Teen Titans Dark” (who the hell came up with JL Dark and thought it was a good name?), Jon Kent and maybe even Billy Batson could join the team. Honestly, how come has Billy never been part of the Teen Titans? The fact that most of this team would be struggling to surpass or overcome not only their legacy but THEIR PARENTS is something that would bring a new facet to Teen Titans.
Besides, I’ve just read Deathstroke #20 and the team you’ve built there is much more appealing than TT. I’ll gladly start following it if your writing keeps as fresh as it seems to be from the two issues that I’ve read. I loved the recruitment of the apostles told by someone else, much like the bible itself tells the tales of Jesus from other people’s point of view.
Jessica: thanks so much, I’m deeply flattered. And stay tuned– Defiance is definitely my cynical take on a Teen Titans team.
Billy Batson? Isn’t he on an entirely different Earth…?
I honestly have no idea what has been happening with Shazam, he has yet to show up on Rebirth and I am guessing he will soon since they are making a Black Adam movie. In the past, he has been part of the Justice League though. Which is crazy, he is a kid.
I don’t know wether to submit this here or at the post for the new issue of Deathstroke (which was amazing by the way), but I have always wondered if the problem withe the comics industry is not something more fundamental.
The first “fandom” I came into was the anime/manga fandom, I did not start reading (western) comicbooks until I was 22 in 2012. Since then I have been perplexed at the lack of concept of progression and the hatred of change and adversity that fans have. when you read manga (Japanese comic books) the first thing you expect is that the story PROGRESSES and, here’s the kicker, it will end. I think that this is do to something fundamentally Buddhist in that culture that says “the world is not permanant and everything will end.” The flip-side is the Christian/Aristotelian view that “this world just a gateway to an eternal world.” While not all manga writers are Buddhist and not all comic writers are Christian, both cultures express these ideas in the thinking of their art. No Japanese would understand the blowback your getting, but no comic book fan would fathom seeing bestselling- comic after best-selling comic end or have very popular characters killed-off for no other reason than it serving the story. You are an amazing writer and we are blessed to still have you writing comics after 40 years.
Did you watch the new Black Panther trailer and is it dope or good representation in a 2 min trailer for you?
Hey its nice to see you’re back on the blog, I know it’s a little late but as a Reader of Deathstroke who’s literally read every or atleast nearly every comic Deathstroke has been in I just want to say, I don’t mind the whole becoming a hero thing Deathstroke has going, I hope he’s more of an anti hero tho. Deathstroke has always been about Drama so this is dramatically good. My only problem with the series is the side characters, Rose I just dislike where she is tbh, *spoilers* Btw I’ve read every issue of your Deathstroke up to #20, i feel like Rose shouldn’t be trying to get back at her dad with Hosun or have her skull cracked, its rather disappointing I want her to be the Bad*ss Bad Girl she usually is, not the prissy teen daughter. She can be dysfunctional yet bad*ss.
I like her sword tho, I found that interesting.
Also maybe there can be some focus on Deathstroke’s mind and skills, I know he’s a super genius, everyone in comics knows he’s deadly as he is smart but maybe we can get a better look into his mind and see his thoughts, but just like in one comic, we see the world through his eyes blatantly understanding him through the racing thoughts maybe seeing how his skills matter in battle, how he’s a master of all weapons and how as you say, he is the smartest guy in dc.
Anyway thanks for the awesome comics, and don’t let critics get to you. Everybody is a critic and everyone criticises. I’ve recently read Deadpool v1 with some of your comics you wrote of his, you really are a great writer. Dirty Wolff reminds me of someone tho lol (Lobo).
I want new rogues for the Inhumans that aren’t leftovers from someone else. For them to explore and flesh out the entire family and involve the weirdness from attilan.
if Deathstroke’s team is called Defiance then who are they defying?
Kudos on your ongoing projects, Mr. Priest! This is my first time reading about your inquiry, so I’ll give it a go:
“I mean, what do fans want in a general sense. What do fans want that the major publishers are not providing or not providing well? I’m sure Marvel and DC spend a lot of time, money and effort trying to figure that out. What kinds of stories? What do Wally fans want to see and what’s a good direction to take that character? For Damian?”
Hmm: broadly speaking, I’d like to see heroes being heroic and villains being villainous. I’m rather disappointed in the trends of recent years to turn many villains “sympathetic” and then they become ‘anti-heroes’ and then a certain fan contingent starts rooting for them as the moral equals of the traditional heroes. This is the trap that Venom evolved into, and it has soured me on that character for many years now.
I like when hero teams have a clear mission statement.
Let’s see more of America. (Yes, the world is much bigger, but hear me out.) “Most” American super-hero activity takes place in just a relative handful of cities, while the rest of America is “left alone” by super-villainy, presumably. You would think that after villains get their heads knocked in for the 1,000th time in Gotham, NYC (Marvel), Metropolis, etc., that some of them would pack their things in the mini-van and drive to middle America to possibly rob some banks or set up a protection racket or some other schemes. Who is the Kingpin of Dubuque, Iowa, for example? What if the Penguin started going to small town Alabama and West Virginia to steal bird statues? Are there any local heroes at all to deal with these problems? Hmm…
The Chinese “Super-Man” title is one way that this issue has been dealt with, globally.
I don’t like when heroes are brought into outright villainy (like, say, Cyclops in recent years or Sub-Mariner when he was possessed by Phoenix and wrecked Wakanda).. All of the ‘your favorite characters pushed to the brink– then they cross the line’ is very disheartening for me. I will reserve judgment on the current Hydra-Captain America storyline until it reaches its conclusion.
I haven’t cared for the trend of “heroes vs. heroes” slugfest crossovers, over some ideological issue or other. I don’t think it has been as effective as some editors/writers had hoped. It just makes me look cynically at all of these characters.
I’d like to see “neglected” characters get some spotlight. Characters who have a following but they’ve usually been used as “wallpaper” for years. Iceman was in this zone for many years. Firestar, too.
I’d like to see more racial minority characters be prominently used, in team settings, and as supporting characters and leads. Give them some intriguing backstories. If there’s a conflict to be generated, let it be something relatively original, or non-stereotypical: I know that some feel differently about the “equal opportunity” angle, but it’s somewhat disturbing to me when some minority characters turn out to be drug addicts, gangster-wannabes, cartoonish militants (respect to Jeph Loeb but I loathed that “Muhammad X” he came up with) or similar hangups and tropes. Not every Asian character knows martial arts. Not every black character has a “ghetto” upbringing. Not every Latinx character knows fluent Spanish.
When it comes to villainous behavior– I’m less into ever-escalating mass carnage as a tactic. Blowing up stadiums full of people, razing occupied buildings, mass drownings, etc., this stuff happens “regularly” in various books, but we really don’t see much of the consequences– the human cost of how people move on with their lives- if they can at all– after such events? It’s just– the heroes have their pyrrhic victory, and that’s it.
So the story goes, Jim Shooter insisted that Phoenix had to die after she blew up the planet of Broccoli People. Let’s try to bring back that sense of moral gravity. I know that the Joker will never get a bullet in the head, but can he at least get a real solid butt-kicking after his latest murder spree?
Happy romantic couples where both parties happen to be minorities. No shade on interracial couplings, but it seems like, ahem, the “swirl” seems to be kind of a standard in comics, but real-world America 2017 isn’t quite there yet.
Racially diverse workplaces: police precincts, schools, construction workers, science labs, newspapers, TV stations, etc.
I can probably think of some other things, but I’ll leave it there.
now that Deathstroke is a “Hero” will he an Superman team up also will he an Superboy meet/team up
Also if Deathstroke’s team is called Defiance who are they Defying
an finally an thoughts on Defiance Battling Vandal Savage?
keep on being a great writer Mr Priest
Every comic should be able to be someone’s first.
I want a story that drives my son’s imagination, but also keeps me interested in a character as well.
I want a stack of comics I can give a kid who is sick from school, in a hospital bed, has a broken arm, can’t play in the son today, that will make him say WOW and maybe try to act out or tell me about because it is so fantastical.
Bonus: Generally, almost always, I want a main story that has some type of ending but also adds to a broader story told over a series of books. Even the ending of that main series triggers the beginning of the next set of stories, kind of the way the last day of school ends with the first night of summer – the story isn’t over, it just sets the stage for what follows.
I almost always want a main story (that ties into a greater story) with two interludes, one that relates to a soon problem and one that relates to a longer term problem. I almost always want the first few pages to be the solution to last months cliffhanger, a character driven middle interrupted by two interludes, and then some action problem that drives to a last page cliffhanger that makes me wait until next month that I really can’t wait to read.
I’m not saying it has to be like this, but I never complain when it is. And may more likely complain when it isn’t.
I hope this is helpful.
Sorry, I knew there was one more thing floating around in my head.
That List that was floating around years ago, the things that should (or should not) be in a book edited by Priest as taught by Jim Shooter (if my memory serves at all). Pretty much the entire thing I like and would like see more of.
Which is not to be sycophantic – but when I read it, I totally found myself nodding my head.
Hey Priest, I’ve come up with an idea for an actual story I want to read instead of a fight I wanted to see. Prior to your run Deathstroke had just broke his sworn oath to the League of Assassins, and Ra’s al Ghul is going to look like a bitch if he never comes after him again. I still think Slade should kick his ass in the end, but it’d be cool to see their intensely personal history explored once again as well as see Deathstroke–the single greatest, most deadly assassin on the planet take on a global assassination organization. Could be a morality thing too, between a guy who only kills for money and a man with plans for worldwide domination.
It could also work if Slade came after Ra’s himself. Should also be a pretty cool opportunity to not just rely on his enhancements and gear, but his actual skill as well. It’d be very, very awesome to see Deathstroke show the League of Assassins how it’s done.
Well, showing them how it’s done while remaining completely outclassed in resources.
I just noticed this post, and any response is probably too late. However, in case Priest is still reading this thread and looking for input… What I would love to see is more comics like James Robinson’s Starman from the 90’s. That is, a well written long series with a beginning, middle, and end by a single writer with interesting good and bad characters that grow and change. Ideally, with some gray characters, too, like The Shade was. A comic that respects past continuity and builds on it, but doesn’t require me to know any backstory before starting the series, nor keep up with other titles. I can’t tell you how annoying it is to be reading a series that has sudden interruptions by major events that don’t matter to that title, suddenly have to read issues of other titles just to get the rest of a story, or even just have the flow of a series interrupted by crossovers and/or big events. I realize that James Robinson could do what he did because he used characters no one else cared about, but even if marque characters have to stay the same to match TV and movie characterizations, most supporting characters and villains do not. To use another ancient example, that’s how Archie Goodwin made the Star Wars comic interesting way back in the 70’s. Currently, Ryan North’s Squirrel Girl may be trying to do something like this, too.